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- I'm in the Department of Politics,

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Policy and International Relations.

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We have our first panel of what we hope

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will be a very successful series

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of faculty scholars
discussion this academic year.

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We hope to have four such events,

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so two in the fall, two in the spring.

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And these events are here to highlight

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the incredible research and scholarship

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done by our wonderful colleagues.

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And we're very excited to have

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two really incredible researchers here,

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joining us to talk about the research,

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the books that they have been
working on in this past year.

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So our first speaker is Kimberly Poitevin

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and she received the Research APR in 2020

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to work on her book entitled,

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"Women, Cosmetics, and
Origins of White Supremacy."

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And the book explores the ways
that women's use of cosmetics

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in early modern England
made whiteness visible

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and racial identity and
contributed to the development

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of white supremacy as
we recognize it today.

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In today's talk, she will
provide a few examples

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of ways that English women used whiteness

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as an instrument of
power in relation to men,

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to each other and other racialized groups.

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And our second speaker
is professor Keja Valens

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from the English Department.

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She also received the Research APR in 2021

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to work on her book project,

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"Caribbean Cookbooks:
Culinary Colonialism,

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and Recipes for Independence."

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Her book examines, how
Caribbean cookbooks transmit

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and play out the tensions
between colonial dependents

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and de-colonial national projects,

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as they locate Caribbean
culture and its concoction

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in domestic spaces that
are gendered female

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and that negotiated
race, language and class

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in particularly domestic ways.

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In today's presentation, she
will focus on the construction

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and ordering of colonial communities

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in Caroline's Sullivan's
1893 Jamaican cookery book.

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So thank you very much for joining us.

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We're so excited you're here
and that you have agreed

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to share your wonderful
scholarship with us.

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And maybe Kimberly if you
wanna start, that'd be great.

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- There are leaf blowers
outside my apartment right now.

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(laughing)

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(leaf blowers humming)

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I wonder if maybe it makes
sense for Keja to go first.

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- Yeah, I was just gonna propose that.

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- Is that okay?

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- Yeah, I was just gonna
propose that. That sounds great.

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- Yeah, sounds good.

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Can you let me share my screen?

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I have some images.

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And I'll just start.

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Having it, you know, just
thank you so much to CRCA

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for these research grants.

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It's really impossible
to get any research done

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during a semester with a four load.

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And this is the only way
and a really fantastic way

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to feel supported and get stuff done.

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So thank you.

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- I think you should be able,
you're listed as a co-host,

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I think you should be able to show,

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- Yes, now I can, perfect, thank you.

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So I have, let me turn
this into a slide show.

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There we go.

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So I have some images that will go along,

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I'm just gonna say, the pictures
are not from the cookbook,

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but they're just to make it
a little more interesting.

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So Caroline Sullivan's 1893,

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"Jamaica Cookery Book"

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is the first cookbook
written by a Caribbean woman.

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The first Jamaican cookbook
and the first cookbook

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from anywhere in the British West Indies.

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Very little is known
about Caroline Sullivan.

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And in fact, the first
edition was only signed C.S.

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But the second edition,

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which was in 1897,

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had her full name on it.

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It appears that she was
a white Creole woman,

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connected to Jamaica's
British and plantation elite,

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and that she maintains significant wealth

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and position through the end of her life.

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A close reading of
"Jamaica Cookery Book's"

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type and manner of instruction.

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The ways that Sullivan
asserts her own authority

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and imparts it to readers,
uncover Sullivan's position

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in an on Jamaica, revealing
how she both represented

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and guided a community of
white women in Jamaica,

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in relation to the
natives and their cuisine.

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Sullivan identifies herself,
not as the composer,

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but the collector of the recipes

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in the "Jamaica Cookery Book."

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She joins a long line
of colonial collectors

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who expropriate and appropriate
Afro indigenous material,

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labor and knowledge and then use it,

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as in "The Traffic in Women"
that Gayle Rubin describes

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"to solidify relations
among those in power

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"at the expense of the
objects of exchange".

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As not only an intermediary
between the people

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and her readers, but as the owner of our

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"ordinary Jamaica
cooking", as she calls it,

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Sullivan is a facilitator of exchange

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who as she takes possession of the people

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and their culinary history

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also acknowledges their contributions.

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As Sullivan addresses and forms
community with her audience

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and positions the sources of her recipes,

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the "Jamaica Cookery Book"
participates in both colonialism

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and proto-independence work.

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Colonial hetero-patriarchy
and proto-feminism,

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white elitist racism and Creolization

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in the (speaks in foreign
language) of hybridity

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and cultural pluralism.

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Sullivan names, as her primary audience,

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recent arrivals to Jamaica.

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And she writes, quote,

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"I venture to hope that those
various methods of cooking

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"here given, maybe have
some little use to newcomers

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"on whose behalf this
work has been undertaken."

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At the same time, she
also addresses, quote,

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"Those whose long residence in the island

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renders them familiar with all the details

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of our ordinary Jamaican
cooking," end quote.

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Sullivan positions
herself and her audience

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as sharing a familiarity
with English cookbooks

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and with cooking in general,

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as she explains that she
does not include recipes

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for British staples because, quote,

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"My desire is merely to
introduce newcomers to Jamaica,

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"our own native methods of
cooking, our own products,

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"and by no means to attempt to cope

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"with the many excellent
works that at present exists

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"on English and other cookery".

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Sullivan recognizes that
her English leadership

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arrives in Jamaica,

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not only as strangers
to our native dishes,

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but also with certain prejudices

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against salt fish and
goat mutton, for example.

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As she addresses the
unfamiliarity and prejudice,

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Sullivan outlines a
uniquely Jamaican cuisine,

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delicately poised between
independent identity

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and service to the empire.

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Sullivan affirms a
superiority of things English

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as she affirms that some discomfort

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on the part of the newcomer
is reasonable for, quote,

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"Sometimes one is
disappointed," end quote,

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notably by the way the
meat is butchered and sold.

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She assures that goat mutton
can be thoroughly enjoyed,

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but she also concludes her
recipes for it with, quote

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"All my endeavor is to make
the best of an inferior thing,

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when one cannot get the best," end quote.

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This is in her introduction
to this recipe.

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A few things, in other words,

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the English reader will rightly conclude

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are the best in England.

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These are balanced, however,
by others from Jamaica

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that are almost better or more nourishing,

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even some worthy of being,

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"Put in a parcel and sent to England",

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and far outweighed by
delicious Jamaican delicacies

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Sullivan introduces to
her English audiences.

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The prejudices Sullivan
ultimately shows are misguided

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and can be cured by an actual encounter

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with Jamaican cuisine.

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Quote, "I have heard people
say over and over again,

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"that no matter how
disguised goat mutton may be,

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"they would never eat it.

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"Yet those very people have
enjoyed it in my presence

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"so much so in fact, as to
ask for another helping."

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Proper information and
encounter with Jamaican cuisine

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served with the skills of
Sullivan's cooking, or her cooks,

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can remediate English ignorance.

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By offering English women her
insights into Jamaican food,

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Sullivan not only positions
herself and her book

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as the bridge between
English and native cultures,

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raising all of the questions
of alliance, translation

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and treachery that bridges beg.

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But she also asserts it
as a space of community

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distinct from both the
English and the native.

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And this is getting into the
question of what the Creole is

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that I'm not gonna get into very much.

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Nearly every recipe in
the "Jamaica Cookery Book"

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centers on a Jamaican
ingredient or technique

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that is not common in England.

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Nearly all the recipes also
use English ingredients,

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such as the recipe for cornmeal duckoonoo,

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that calls for butter and milk

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along with corn and plantain.

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Sullivan's selection of dishes
and the recipes themselves

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demonstrate the long and complex history

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of culinary crossings that render

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West Indian cuisine distinct,

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and that lead many to
refer to it as Creole.

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Sullivan's recipe for
ochro soup, for example,

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calls for ingredients from Africa, ochro,

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Europe, salt beef, thyme and salt pork,

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and indigenous Caribbean,

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Indian kale or callilu,
tomato and scallion.

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With salt, beef and pork
bearing also the history

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of their providence in slave diets.

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"Proudly exhibiting our own native methods

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"of cooking our own products," end quote.

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Sullivan uses the
possessive our to designate

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not only that which we belong
to, but that which we possess.

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The advertisement for the
"Jamaica Cookery Book"

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in "The Daily Gleaner", this
is the major Jamaica paper,

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on Tuesday, February 12th
and Tuesday, March 26th

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and Wednesday, March 27th, 1895,

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highlight the possessive
function of "our",

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with the words "our cook"
under the image conveying

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both that the recipes are
collected from this cook

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or others like her,

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and that this cook belongs to C.S.,

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a possession in which her
readers share or can join.

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Although many of Sullivan's
recipes use the imperative

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that instructs the reader directly,

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elite and even middle-class
women in Jamaica

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did not generally perform the
cooking in their own homes.

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Sullivan mentions the direct
management of domestics

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only once to, quote,

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"Confess that, if one
has to depend on a cook,

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"who is no real cook at all,

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"and can only roast
and boil as she thinks,

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"which is again another matter,

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"one may find a tough
stringy inedible mass

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"served up with a quantity
of grease and water as gravy,

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"enough to make patar familias enraged

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"and housekeeper in no enviable
frame of mind," end quote.

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The "Jamaica Cookery
Book" then can save one

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from being in a position
to depend on a cook,

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especially one who is no real cook.

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One, (audio muted)

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executes one's instructions.

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The "Jamaica Cookery Book"
informs readers how to enjoy,

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ask for and direct the
preparation of the foods

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those cooks make.

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While Sullivan's cookbook
articulates a class system

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where the Europeans order
and the natives execute,

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it also betrays the culinary expertise,

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not only of the cooks who are employed

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by the likes of Sullivan,

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but also the culinary and
economic acumen and practices

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of the people who offer
pre-made products for sale

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and the tastes of the people
whose preferences she mentions.

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While the reason Sullivan gives

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for recommending that readers buy

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(speaking foreign language)

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00:12:40,151 --> 00:12:44,160
bammies and hominy for cake
pudding, biscuits or pap,

253
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,463
as in this recipe,

254
00:12:46,666 --> 00:12:49,670
is that they are tiring
and tedious to make.

255
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:51,880
Her brief reference to each process

256
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,468
shows them to require
not only time and energy,

257
00:12:54,468 --> 00:12:57,150
but also technical skill.

258
00:12:57,150 --> 00:13:00,060
As she reports that the
natives sell roasted pindas,

259
00:13:00,060 --> 00:13:01,330
to make a cake with them,

260
00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:03,930
Sullivan also mentions not only cashews,

261
00:13:03,930 --> 00:13:05,790
but a bean called
(speaks foreign language)

262
00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:08,564
showing the culinary and
market savvy of the natives

263
00:13:08,564 --> 00:13:11,850
that serves not only English
and elite Jamaica buyers,

264
00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:14,683
but also their own communities.

265
00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:17,580
Introducing the set's non salt fish,

266
00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:20,290
Sullivan asserts that
some native preparations

267
00:13:20,290 --> 00:13:21,539
improve on the European.

268
00:13:21,539 --> 00:13:24,527
Quote, "It is not
surprising to most newcomers

269
00:13:24,527 --> 00:13:25,787
"to find that in Jamaica,

270
00:13:25,787 --> 00:13:28,647
"there is hardly a more
popular dish among the natives,

271
00:13:28,647 --> 00:13:30,491
"and often among the upper classes,

272
00:13:30,491 --> 00:13:32,597
"than the despised salt fish,

273
00:13:32,597 --> 00:13:34,017
"eaten at home, not from choice,

274
00:13:34,017 --> 00:13:37,347
"but as a sort of penitential dish.

275
00:13:37,347 --> 00:13:39,157
"Here, it is the almost daily,

276
00:13:39,157 --> 00:13:41,948
"and certainly the favorite
food of the people generally,

277
00:13:41,948 --> 00:13:44,247
"and cooked as they cook it,

278
00:13:44,247 --> 00:13:48,220
"it cannot fail to please the
most fastidious," end quote.

279
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:51,470
This passage exemplifies her
distinction between the natives

280
00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:54,420
and the upper classes who can be United

281
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:57,841
in being pleased by the same
dishes when cooked properly,

282
00:13:57,841 --> 00:14:01,030
but remain safely
separated by the frequency

283
00:14:01,030 --> 00:14:04,740
and degrees of favor with
which those dishes are enjoyed.

284
00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:07,170
The separation is
important for the people.

285
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:11,530
So mutton with Guinea hen weed in vinegar,

286
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:14,340
which they fondly hope
destroys the detestable taste

287
00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:17,420
of the weed, to so little avail

288
00:14:17,420 --> 00:14:20,190
that Sullivan instructs her
readers in another recipe

289
00:14:20,190 --> 00:14:21,993
to avoid this altogether.

290
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,470
Similarly, there are several
other recipes that she says

291
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:28,373
are just an inedible.

292
00:14:30,603 --> 00:14:34,920
And in the recipe for boiled
pumpkins, Sullivan indicates

293
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,877
that the natives use
this Creole culinary term

294
00:14:37,877 --> 00:14:40,910
"junks", set apart in quotations,

295
00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:43,210
and do not use salt and butter,

296
00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:44,500
and perhaps most importantly,

297
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,450
do not prepare the cooked
food for presentation

298
00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:51,920
shaping in a dish, as a mark
of their lack of refinement.

299
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,770
Sullivan's descriptions of the
natives techniques and tastes

300
00:14:55,770 --> 00:14:59,690
hold them up to, expropriate them for,

301
00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:02,753
and distance them from
European refinement.

302
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:10,950
- Thank you so much.
This was so wonderful.

303
00:15:10,950 --> 00:15:13,110
And give me a appetite.

304
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:14,623
- (laughing)

305
00:15:14,623 --> 00:15:18,390
- I wanted to take pictures
of some of the recipes.

306
00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:22,030
I think Kim has left the Zoom meeting.

307
00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:24,563
So I propose that we just discuss,

308
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,770
if we have questions for
Keja and we talk about

309
00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:29,657
her presentation and then hopefully

310
00:15:29,657 --> 00:15:32,603
Kim will join us back in a few minutes.

311
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,250
- I wonder whether you
could talk a little bit,

312
00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:42,270
especially if we envision
a recording of this as an

313
00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:45,437
opportunity for students
to hear about your work.

314
00:15:45,437 --> 00:15:49,750
So how do you come to a topic like this?

315
00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:52,423
How did you discover it?
How did it discover you?

316
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,183
How did you figure out that it was a book?

317
00:15:56,183 --> 00:15:59,242
How did it, how did it take over your life

318
00:15:59,242 --> 00:16:03,420
and demand that you write it as a book.

319
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:06,220
Sort of the evolution
of a project like this,

320
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,120
would be really helpful to hear about it.

321
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,750
- Yeah, absolutely.

322
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:11,700
And yes, that is a good,

323
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:15,140
that is a fantastic description
of the general trajectory.

324
00:16:15,140 --> 00:16:19,800
So I work in Caribbean
studies, but mostly literature,

325
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,080
not cookbooks, kind of
traditional novel, short story,

326
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,788
storytelling spaces.

327
00:16:27,788 --> 00:16:30,810
But I love eating, I love cooking.

328
00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:33,270
So I always gather
cookbooks wherever I go,

329
00:16:33,270 --> 00:16:34,453
I gather cookbooks.

330
00:16:35,390 --> 00:16:36,330
And then I, you know,

331
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:38,760
spend a lot of time reading
them as much time reading them

332
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,270
as I do cooking from them
because they're really fun.

333
00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:43,850
And I started finding,

334
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:46,470
I realized at a certain
point that I had a first,

335
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:49,500
a huge collection of Caribbean cookbooks.

336
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:52,490
And second that there's something really,

337
00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:55,190
I kept talking about them and
I kept running into people

338
00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:57,114
who said to me, some version of,

339
00:16:57,114 --> 00:17:00,200
"But why do you need a
cookbook in the Caribbean?"

340
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,610
You know, Caribbean people
have a long tradition

341
00:17:02,610 --> 00:17:07,390
of passing on culinary
knowledge in non-print culture

342
00:17:07,390 --> 00:17:09,190
and print culture is really colonial.

343
00:17:09,190 --> 00:17:12,780
So why cookbooks in the Caribbean?

344
00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:14,850
So I started to read the cookbooks again,

345
00:17:14,850 --> 00:17:19,162
and it really struck me that
they're doing something much

346
00:17:19,162 --> 00:17:24,162
different and more than just
teaching people how to cook.

347
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,240
And so then I really started
reading them for like,

348
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,530
what else are they doing?

349
00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:29,580
And what struck me

350
00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:33,484
is that they're this space
in the colonial cookbooks,

351
00:17:33,484 --> 00:17:36,610
they're the space where women get to write

352
00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:41,250
and get to intervene in public discourse

353
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:44,440
in a way that's really
rare and super colonialist,

354
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,440
but still rare for these women
to be taking on that role.

355
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,900
And then once you hit independence,

356
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:57,900
getting close to independence,
women start taking on this,

357
00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:02,820
really, making these great
arguments for food independence,

358
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:06,310
and national independence as
tied to food independence,

359
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:10,090
and really speaking up and
using it, like, quite explicit.

360
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:13,370
Like in Barbados, there's one
of the first women senators

361
00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:16,930
is also the writer of one of
a whole bunch of cookbooks.

362
00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:19,770
So really getting like this implication

363
00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:24,473
of political advocacy and
cookbook writing. It's huge.

364
00:18:26,187 --> 00:18:28,760
And I started to notice that
kind of across the Caribbean,

365
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,760
that in places where there
are cookbooks in large volume

366
00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:35,213
there's independence,

367
00:18:36,091 --> 00:18:38,770
and as cookbooks peak
independence happens.

368
00:18:38,770 --> 00:18:41,363
So these really kind
of crazy correlations.

369
00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:44,680
And so then I started getting into them,

370
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,850
but it was because of the
big spread correlations

371
00:18:47,850 --> 00:18:49,950
that I realized it needed to be a book,

372
00:18:49,950 --> 00:18:50,783
rather than a paper.

373
00:18:50,783 --> 00:18:53,820
That each one individually is really cool,

374
00:18:53,820 --> 00:18:56,821
but when you look at it
together and you go, wait,

375
00:18:56,821 --> 00:18:59,723
this is like a pattern
across the Caribbean.

376
00:19:01,417 --> 00:19:06,150
And in places where there
still isn't independence

377
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:08,440
like Martinique and Guadalupe

378
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,110
and Puerto Rico and the
U.S. Virgin Islands,

379
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,480
the patterns look really different

380
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,480
and there's much less profound
ability to get published.

381
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,823
These cookbooks that
are deeply independent.

382
00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:28,930
So made me feel like I had to have it

383
00:19:28,930 --> 00:19:30,350
as a whole big project.

384
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:32,875
It has taken me a really long time,

385
00:19:32,875 --> 00:19:35,060
because a big project does.

386
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:39,900
So I've been at this for,
like, seven years now

387
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:44,900
and it is finally a completed
manuscript under review.

388
00:19:45,630 --> 00:19:48,020
So, you know, it will come together.

389
00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:51,950
But boy, there were many
moments when I thought,

390
00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:54,530
why did I not just make
a couple of articles?

391
00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:56,710
Why did I think this
had to be a whole book?

392
00:19:56,710 --> 00:20:00,003
And as it is a whole
book, I'm glad that it is.

393
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:06,023
- I think Laura, you had a question.

394
00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:10,390
- Hi, Keja, congratulations.

395
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:12,600
It was so great to hear you read that.

396
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,100
I really enjoyed the
juxtaposition of cooking

397
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:20,860
and writing about cooking
in an academic sense

398
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:22,780
and tone and approach.

399
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:26,330
It was really delightful and
I wish you the best for that.

400
00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:27,163
That's great.

401
00:20:27,163 --> 00:20:30,130
So are there chapters per cookbook?

402
00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:31,960
Is that how you're
approaching each one as though

403
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,804
an essay about that particular cookbook?

404
00:20:34,804 --> 00:20:37,420
- I'm trying to be pretty comprehensive.

405
00:20:37,420 --> 00:20:41,320
So it's chapters by
region or by countries.

406
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,350
So I've got like a chapter
on the colonial west Indies

407
00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:46,540
and a chapter on

408
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,110
colonial Cuba and Puerto Rico

409
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:55,110
and a chapter on kind of
neo-colonial Martinique, Guadalupe,

410
00:20:55,309 --> 00:20:57,950
U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico.

411
00:20:57,950 --> 00:21:00,830
And then moving into the post-colonial,

412
00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:02,180
it's not as comprehensive,

413
00:21:02,180 --> 00:21:05,194
but I've got a chapter on Cuba,

414
00:21:05,194 --> 00:21:07,760
because it's really its own unique thing,

415
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,818
and a chapter on the west Indies

416
00:21:10,818 --> 00:21:15,818
and a chapter on Haiti and
the Dominican Republic.

417
00:21:16,770 --> 00:21:19,964
- Oh my gosh. It sounds like
heaven in print, really.

418
00:21:19,964 --> 00:21:21,620
- (laughing)

419
00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:25,690
- But the idea of approaching
a community's history

420
00:21:25,690 --> 00:21:28,950
through a cookbook and what people ate

421
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:33,930
and then layering in the
lessons that you described,

422
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:37,520
the kind of social order, if it were,

423
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,510
is fascinating to me.

424
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:41,040
So I wonder if there's already a market

425
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,823
for this kind of a book or
is this a first of its kind?

426
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,990
- So there have been some
really fantastic books

427
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:51,160
done on this in African
American cookbooks.

428
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,370
Toni Tipton-Martin has published

429
00:21:53,370 --> 00:21:55,511
a couple of really fantastic works

430
00:21:55,511 --> 00:21:59,693
and some others looking
at American cookbooks.

431
00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:03,330
And there's one that just came out,

432
00:22:03,330 --> 00:22:05,573
looking at Spanish cookbooks.

433
00:22:07,647 --> 00:22:11,250
So nobody has looked at
the Caribbean in this way,

434
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:14,277
but it is definitely an emerging field

435
00:22:14,277 --> 00:22:17,780
in terms of the basic concept.

436
00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:21,220
So there's some really good
stuff that's coming out.

437
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:22,980
- That's super exciting.

438
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:24,920
And then the last thing
that really struck me

439
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,940
was the similarity with

440
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,320
Krishna Malik's book about
environmentalism in India,

441
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,100
with women being the ones
to notice the changes first.

442
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:37,730
And you mentioned that, you know,

443
00:22:37,730 --> 00:22:40,324
the women are the ones
who created this community

444
00:22:40,324 --> 00:22:42,730
through the sharing of
their recipes and food,

445
00:22:42,730 --> 00:22:44,610
and it's set in a woman's environment.

446
00:22:44,610 --> 00:22:47,700
So I'd love it if you could
talk about that for a minute.

447
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:49,980
- Yeah. I think it's just, you know,

448
00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:54,980
so frequently the domestic
discourse is excluded right?

449
00:22:55,750 --> 00:23:00,440
It's excluded from public sphere

450
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,690
and these kind of big
concepts of the nation,

451
00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:07,830
you know, national problems
or international problems.

452
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:09,420
And at the same time,

453
00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:12,728
a lot of where women are
publishing, is often considered

454
00:23:12,728 --> 00:23:17,728
too commercial to be worthy
of academic consideration.

455
00:23:20,290 --> 00:23:23,655
So, cookbooks and magazines
and trade journals

456
00:23:23,655 --> 00:23:26,263
that people might write in.

457
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,800
So I really think what's great,

458
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,800
the study of material culture
in a lot of different fields

459
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:38,078
has really opened up
the ability to look at

460
00:23:38,078 --> 00:23:40,350
what women are producing.

461
00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:43,570
And then once you start
looking and you read

462
00:23:43,570 --> 00:23:45,980
what those narratives say,

463
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:48,440
it's sort of like there's
this explosion of,

464
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,126
wait a second, women have been documenting

465
00:23:52,126 --> 00:23:56,300
what it looks like from the inside,

466
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:57,460
if you take the domestic sphere

467
00:23:57,460 --> 00:24:01,057
as a kind of inside
sphere, for a long time,

468
00:24:01,057 --> 00:24:05,970
but who's been reading it or
who's been listening to it

469
00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:09,810
needs to be amplified.

470
00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:10,643
- And that's why it's so exciting,

471
00:24:10,643 --> 00:24:11,476
that you're bringing it to light.

472
00:24:11,476 --> 00:24:15,960
- Yeah. And I'm really excited
to hear about Kim's work.

473
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,960
Cause I think Kim's work
looks at a very similar

474
00:24:20,670 --> 00:24:21,676
basic conception of,
let's look at a space,

475
00:24:21,676 --> 00:24:25,975
that hasn't been given the consideration,

476
00:24:25,975 --> 00:24:30,650
but I don't know the details.
All I know is the outline,

477
00:24:30,650 --> 00:24:34,220
but it feels really like
there's a real synergy

478
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,763
in these projects.

479
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,100
- Yeah. And I'm sorry I messed up.

480
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,510
I don't know what happened.

481
00:24:44,510 --> 00:24:47,223
Somehow I got kicked
out and had to restart.

482
00:24:48,193 --> 00:24:51,893
- Oh, don't worry about it. It happens.

483
00:24:51,893 --> 00:24:55,460
- But I know when Keja and I
were talking, it seemed that,

484
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:56,293
there would be.

485
00:24:56,293 --> 00:24:59,340
And I can't wait to read your book.

486
00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:03,450
So I think the leaf
blowers are gone at least.

487
00:25:03,450 --> 00:25:06,036
- Oh, good. Why don't we have you

488
00:25:06,036 --> 00:25:07,876
give your presentation then?

489
00:25:07,876 --> 00:25:10,423
- Sure. I will try.

490
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:12,973
One second.

491
00:25:16,620 --> 00:25:17,663
Share screen.

492
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:24,290
Oh, I'm disabled from
sharing at the moment.

493
00:25:24,290 --> 00:25:25,977
- I just made you co-host.

494
00:25:25,977 --> 00:25:27,015
- Okay.

495
00:25:27,015 --> 00:25:27,848
Thanks.

496
00:25:29,469 --> 00:25:30,302
Okay.

497
00:25:30,302 --> 00:25:33,135
(keyboard typing)

498
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,733
Okay, is that working?

499
00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:41,593
Okay, great.

500
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:48,110
So again, as Keja said,

501
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,960
thank you so much

502
00:25:51,591 --> 00:25:54,220
to the Center for Research
and Creative Activities.

503
00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:56,740
It is very difficult to do research

504
00:25:56,740 --> 00:25:59,258
with a four-four teaching load.

505
00:25:59,258 --> 00:26:03,580
And the extra time that it allowed me,

506
00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:06,760
really enabled me to
push my project further

507
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,453
than it had gone before.

508
00:26:09,505 --> 00:26:11,700
So I thought I'd tell
you a little bit about it

509
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,870
and then maybe share with you some of what

510
00:26:13,870 --> 00:26:17,610
I was able to accomplish,
thanks to the time.

511
00:26:17,610 --> 00:26:22,610
So my project in part stemmed
from a sense of frustration

512
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,290
that feminist scholars

513
00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:29,077
who are writing about
the English Renaissance,

514
00:26:29,077 --> 00:26:34,077
women and race hadn't
fully examined the ways

515
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,080
that women were implicated
in the development of racism

516
00:26:39,770 --> 00:26:42,163
over the course of the period.

517
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:47,010
Too often, a lot of this
work would represent

518
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:49,840
patriarchy, racism, and colonialism

519
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,716
as analogous systems of oppression

520
00:26:52,716 --> 00:26:56,821
that were created and enacted by men

521
00:26:56,821 --> 00:27:01,240
to subordinate, both women
and other racial groups.

522
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,850
And sometimes this work would
imply or even outright state

523
00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:08,980
that women would have been
incapable of participating

524
00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:10,037
in such enterprises,

525
00:27:10,037 --> 00:27:14,350
because of their own subordinate
positions in society.

526
00:27:14,350 --> 00:27:18,780
And yet it seemed significant to me,

527
00:27:18,780 --> 00:27:21,460
that at the very moment that the English

528
00:27:21,460 --> 00:27:24,899
began trying to colonize the Americas,

529
00:27:24,899 --> 00:27:27,090
at the moment that the English started

530
00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:29,810
trafficking in African slaves,

531
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:33,034
it was a woman, Elizabeth I,

532
00:27:33,034 --> 00:27:35,740
who was on the throne.

533
00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:38,130
And the second part of this project,

534
00:27:38,130 --> 00:27:42,010
I was interested in thinking through

535
00:27:42,010 --> 00:27:44,420
how it is that English people

536
00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:47,500
came to see themselves as white.

537
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:49,751
Even as a little kid, I was preoccupied

538
00:27:49,751 --> 00:27:51,190
with this question.

539
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:53,500
Why do we call ourselves "white people"?

540
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:57,943
What allowed us to start
seeing ourselves as white?

541
00:27:58,830 --> 00:28:02,000
It wouldn't be until
later in the 17th century

542
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,633
that English men would
start to consider themselves

543
00:28:05,633 --> 00:28:08,520
as a white people for the first time.

544
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,720
But there was a lengthier history

545
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,680
that associated whiteness with beauty

546
00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:19,170
that really seemed to be pushed forward

547
00:28:19,170 --> 00:28:23,450
and get fused with the
emerging discourses of race

548
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:25,573
during this particular time.

549
00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:30,760
And so part of my argument is that

550
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,390
during the course of her reign,

551
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:35,600
Elizabeth harnessed some
of the symbolic powers

552
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,060
of whiteness,

553
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:42,520
and used cosmetics to
help justify her authority

554
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,940
as an unmarried and virgin queen.

555
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:49,980
She fused positive
associations between whiteness

556
00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:54,783
and virginity, beauty,
virtue, purity, religion,

557
00:28:55,790 --> 00:28:59,170
to ideas about nation and race

558
00:28:59,170 --> 00:29:01,290
that were developing in the period.

559
00:29:01,290 --> 00:29:04,860
And she set a standard for beauty,

560
00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:08,850
for white beauty that others
would start to emulate.

561
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:12,990
And it's striking how similar

562
00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:16,100
some of her peers

563
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:17,740
look to Elizabeth

564
00:29:18,719 --> 00:29:20,563
in their own portraits.

565
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,840
So writings about cosmetics and painting

566
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,740
are ubiquitous in men's
writing from the period.

567
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:34,690
We find them in plays and
poems and conduct books

568
00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:38,550
and certain religious tracts.

569
00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:42,963
And very often they're
presented in a negative way.

570
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,700
And very often there's concern

571
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:48,690
about cosmetics ability to obscure

572
00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:52,790
distinctions between women.

573
00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:56,530
So in this one, by
Barnaby Rich, for example,

574
00:29:56,530 --> 00:30:00,397
he laments, he can "no longer
tell a lady from a laundress.

575
00:30:00,397 --> 00:30:02,818
"We can't distinguish women of honor

576
00:30:02,818 --> 00:30:06,767
"from those who are of base parentage,

577
00:30:06,767 --> 00:30:09,497
"whose best bringing up has
been in the washing, starching,

578
00:30:09,497 --> 00:30:11,827
"and scraping of trenches".

579
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,180
There were also some
concerns about cosmetics

580
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:17,450
and their costs,

581
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:20,710
and there were foreign ingredients

582
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:22,963
imported from all over the world.

583
00:30:25,030 --> 00:30:27,740
There was another writer, Phillip Stubbs,

584
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:28,673
who said they were,

585
00:30:28,673 --> 00:30:32,911
"farfetched, dear bought and
cunningly mingled together

586
00:30:32,911 --> 00:30:36,947
"from stones, flowers,
birds, beasts, fishes,

587
00:30:36,947 --> 00:30:39,797
"and whatever Africa, Asia, America,

588
00:30:39,797 --> 00:30:43,457
"sea, land, art, and
industry could afford".

589
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:47,840
So the mingling of different ingredients

590
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,180
from different cultures
was also of concern

591
00:30:50,180 --> 00:30:51,393
during this time.

592
00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:57,220
But while men can't keep
themselves from talking about it,

593
00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:00,710
women rarely acknowledged
using cosmetics themselves.

594
00:31:00,710 --> 00:31:03,560
And I argue this isn't very surprising,

595
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,627
because the culture in which they lived,

596
00:31:06,627 --> 00:31:10,460
religious leaders would condemn cosmetics

597
00:31:10,460 --> 00:31:13,360
as lying, as deception.

598
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,010
They were associated with idolatry.

599
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:19,670
And even secular wisdom advised women

600
00:31:19,670 --> 00:31:22,293
to keep their use of makeup secretive.

601
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:28,320
This is Ovid's "Art of Love".

602
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,730
It was translated into
English in the 16th century

603
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:34,770
and exceedingly popular.

604
00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:37,580
And it argued that women
should apply their makeup

605
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:39,660
outside of men's sight.

606
00:31:39,660 --> 00:31:42,930
They should make sure that
they keep their makeup boxes,

607
00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:44,823
where men cannot see them.

608
00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:47,263
And he says,

609
00:31:48,647 --> 00:31:52,527
"Mind thou beauty, when
we think thee sleeping,

610
00:31:52,527 --> 00:31:56,490
"why should I know why
thou art grown so fair?"

611
00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:59,410
So cosmetics are all right,

612
00:31:59,410 --> 00:32:01,650
as long as men don't know about them.

613
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:04,360
And it's interesting
to me that even today,

614
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,668
we still see, cosmetics
seem to be a practice

615
00:32:07,668 --> 00:32:10,612
that women will do secretly away from men

616
00:32:10,612 --> 00:32:15,612
and sometimes strive for
a natural appearance.

617
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:19,700
Though women writers

618
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:22,950
rarely talk about cosmetics themselves,

619
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:26,878
I was able to dig up a few
examples from some poems

620
00:32:26,878 --> 00:32:28,380
that in their time,

621
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,013
existed only in manuscript.

622
00:32:33,067 --> 00:32:33,900
And

623
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:36,730
in these poems,

624
00:32:36,730 --> 00:32:39,430
they seem to acknowledge
using cosmetics themselves.

625
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:43,003
In other works, when women
talk about cosmetics,

626
00:32:44,670 --> 00:32:49,280
they actually think
through beauty practices

627
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,840
in a pretty sophisticated way.

628
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,363
And I think taken together,

629
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,090
they're pondering the limits of cosmetics.

630
00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:03,070
And they're thinking
through what kinds of powers

631
00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:05,533
whiteness might afford them.

632
00:33:06,830 --> 00:33:09,710
And what kinds of constraints

633
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,750
are imposed on them as well.

634
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:16,920
And what interested me most

635
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,880
was the ways that cosmetic
practices allowed women to

636
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,500
sometimes challenge patriarchal strictures

637
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:30,010
and beauty cultures and
men who would hold them

638
00:33:30,010 --> 00:33:32,003
to certain standards of beauty,

639
00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:35,650
while simultaneously

640
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,123
engaging in racism or
classism at the same time.

641
00:33:41,980 --> 00:33:44,650
So I have the first example,

642
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:48,360
is a poem

643
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,560
from manuscript.

644
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,040
This is Eleanora Finch.

645
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,360
She was a descendant of Sir Thomas Wyatt,

646
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,240
who was more well-known.

647
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,540
And in the poem, she presents
herself as a scorned lover,

648
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:04,680
addressing her former suitor's

649
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,780
new love interest,

650
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,343
as she sits at her table,
applying her makeup.

651
00:34:12,652 --> 00:34:14,427
And she says,

652
00:34:14,427 --> 00:34:17,980
"You might be worthier than I am, but

653
00:34:20,047 --> 00:34:22,647
"she that I won the field from,

654
00:34:22,647 --> 00:34:24,430
"was not any less fair."

655
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:29,430
So she's suggesting that
there's a certain arbitrariness

656
00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:32,313
to beauty.

657
00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:35,950
That it seems to go against

658
00:34:35,950 --> 00:34:39,330
some of the thinking of the time.

659
00:34:39,330 --> 00:34:42,270
And she goes on to say that,

660
00:34:42,270 --> 00:34:44,750
it's man's fickle heart,

661
00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:46,730
not women's

662
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:48,610
manufactured beauty

663
00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:51,670
or their innate beauty

664
00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:56,670
that causes the man to turn
from one woman to another.

665
00:35:02,012 --> 00:35:04,590
She sidesteps any moral questions

666
00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:07,030
about the use of cosmetics

667
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:11,200
and definitely transfers qualities that

668
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,810
polemicists writing against cosmetics

669
00:35:13,810 --> 00:35:15,370
would associate with them,

670
00:35:15,370 --> 00:35:19,440
like vanity, deception, inconstancy,

671
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,653
from men who paint to the
men who would pursue them.

672
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:28,893
So this part where she says,

673
00:35:29,917 --> 00:35:30,887
"To your dressing

674
00:35:30,887 --> 00:35:34,857
"nor impart half so much of costs or art,

675
00:35:34,857 --> 00:35:36,887
"powder, crisp, not curl your hair,

676
00:35:36,887 --> 00:35:39,680
"scarce for you, he'll take that care."

677
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,300
She's pointing to a double
standard where women are supposed

678
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:44,900
to beautify themselves for men,

679
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,163
but they don't get that in return.

680
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:51,193
And she cautions.

681
00:35:53,905 --> 00:35:57,230
She's concerned with a power imbalance

682
00:35:57,230 --> 00:36:00,600
between her and the men.

683
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,810
She also points out how a
woman's beautifying practices

684
00:36:04,810 --> 00:36:06,790
are they seek only to please,

685
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:09,510
but the male suitors
conduct and matters of love

686
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:11,680
harms women.

687
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,750
The diligent effort,

688
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:16,700
a lady makes to preserve her
beauty and apply her makeup

689
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:18,760
is easily undone.

690
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,277
In that second stanza,

691
00:36:20,277 --> 00:36:23,631
"Through close contact with a male suitor

692
00:36:23,631 --> 00:36:26,567
"whose breath alone is enough to ruin

693
00:36:26,567 --> 00:36:28,427
"the effect of her make up."

694
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,842
And then she goes on to say

695
00:36:31,842 --> 00:36:35,100
that the male suitors deep vowed love

696
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:37,940
is shorter lasting

697
00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:40,690
and more false and more vain

698
00:36:40,690 --> 00:36:44,590
than a single application of
the lady's pure white tincture.

699
00:36:44,590 --> 00:36:46,563
Makeup can be reapplied.

700
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:49,950
The fickle lover

701
00:36:49,950 --> 00:36:53,893
cannot be brought back once he strays.

702
00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:59,470
So these distinctions between
dark and light or conventional

703
00:36:59,470 --> 00:37:01,030
and Petrarchan poetry,

704
00:37:01,030 --> 00:37:03,855
which the English inherited,

705
00:37:03,855 --> 00:37:06,380
where usually one woman

706
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,710
is fair, and the other
by definition is dark.

707
00:37:11,710 --> 00:37:14,823
And it is the male who
makes those distinctions

708
00:37:14,823 --> 00:37:16,343
between them.

709
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:21,410
Finch's poem challenges this idea

710
00:37:21,410 --> 00:37:25,230
and suggest there's a kind
of solidarity between women,

711
00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:29,410
but it is a solidarity
that is still very limited

712
00:37:29,410 --> 00:37:33,220
to three women at court,

713
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:34,710
who had once been pursued

714
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:36,743
by this particular person.

715
00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:41,700
There's another example I'll
share with you that engages

716
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:44,423
more directly with race.

717
00:37:45,541 --> 00:37:49,350
And this is Frances
Seymour, Lady Hartford.

718
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:53,060
She was known to be one of
the most beautiful women

719
00:37:53,060 --> 00:37:55,170
of her time.

720
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:57,910
She has a fascinating story.

721
00:37:57,910 --> 00:38:01,280
In 1601, after the death of her husband,

722
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,940
who was a venture that she
married below her station,

723
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:07,840
she was beset by suitors.

724
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,093
And after some consultations
with her astrologer

725
00:38:11,093 --> 00:38:14,159
and negotiations about a joint share,

726
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:19,040
she married a man who
was 40 years her senior,

727
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,973
and very, very wealthy.

728
00:38:22,650 --> 00:38:24,020
Once she

729
00:38:24,980 --> 00:38:28,211
married him, one of her former suitors,

730
00:38:28,211 --> 00:38:30,710
a man named George Rodney,

731
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:34,640
followed her to her new home in Wiltshire,

732
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,820
found a room at the nearby inn,

733
00:38:36,820 --> 00:38:41,400
and sent her pages of verse
describing his miseries

734
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,500
that he claimed were
penned in his own blood.

735
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:46,373
This is so bizarre.

736
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:51,320
So he describes himself as too
deeply wounded to live long.

737
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,240
And then in some of these
lines that you see from

738
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:58,410
his elegy to himself,

739
00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:03,410
he really blames Frances and
her beauty for his suffering.

740
00:39:04,867 --> 00:39:07,440
"It's nature's sin that mixed a mind

741
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,540
with a beauty so unkind."

742
00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:12,974
And he uses these tropes

743
00:39:12,974 --> 00:39:16,610
that are also associated with
rhetoric against cosmetics.

744
00:39:16,610 --> 00:39:20,610
She's a sweet poison, infectious jewel.

745
00:39:20,610 --> 00:39:25,023
Poison and cosmetics were
often talked about together.

746
00:39:27,848 --> 00:39:31,150
And in response to his missive,

747
00:39:31,150 --> 00:39:34,947
Lady Hertford set an extraordinary poem

748
00:39:34,947 --> 00:39:36,630
of her own.

749
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:39,411
I don't know why it isn't
anthologized everywhere,

750
00:39:39,411 --> 00:39:40,910
because it's brilliant.

751
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:44,870
And in rhyming couplets, she
constructs a point-by-point,

752
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:48,580
counter-argument where she
questions Rodney's motives.

753
00:39:48,580 --> 00:39:51,690
She says, he's driven by lust, not love.

754
00:39:51,690 --> 00:39:53,420
She critiques his poetry.

755
00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:56,303
And she scoffs at his suicidal threat,

756
00:39:56,303 --> 00:39:59,950
saying he's being theatrical.

757
00:39:59,950 --> 00:40:03,590
She concludes her poem by
telling him to desist his suit,

758
00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:06,743
and warns him to dare
not contact her again.

759
00:40:07,850 --> 00:40:09,200
Upon receipt of the letter,

760
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,647
apparently Rodney slit his own throat,

761
00:40:11,647 --> 00:40:15,710
but not before pinning one final missive,

762
00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:17,633
as his suicide note.

763
00:40:18,650 --> 00:40:20,700
So this is

764
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:23,130
another example where

765
00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:25,920
a woman comes close to acknowledging

766
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,530
her own painting, though.

767
00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:30,978
Like Rodney, she uses language that allows

768
00:40:30,978 --> 00:40:34,060
a little bit of room for ambiguity.

769
00:40:34,060 --> 00:40:37,170
Maybe she's born with it or died in grain,

770
00:40:37,170 --> 00:40:40,173
but maybe she's chosen to paint it.

771
00:40:42,220 --> 00:40:45,640
But she asserts her
ownership over her own beauty

772
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,670
in a way that suggests
that she should be free

773
00:40:50,564 --> 00:40:52,837
to do with her own appearance,

774
00:40:52,837 --> 00:40:55,423
what she wishes.

775
00:40:58,490 --> 00:41:01,120
She acknowledges the power

776
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,750
that beauty and painting afford her,

777
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:05,452
to win a desirable suitor,

778
00:41:05,452 --> 00:41:09,370
but she refuses to accept responsibility

779
00:41:09,370 --> 00:41:11,746
for Rodney's suffering or for any violence

780
00:41:11,746 --> 00:41:16,746
that he or any other man might inflict.

781
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,373
And in the context of this
poem, death and bloodshed,

782
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,343
it might refer to Rodney's own death,

783
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,910
but she also would have
been familiar with so much

784
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:33,743
of the historical myths

785
00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:36,400
circulating during this time,

786
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,280
about women who might be
raped or even murdered

787
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,073
by men who desired them when they refused.

788
00:41:46,759 --> 00:41:50,370
And what really interests me here,

789
00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:53,090
is that she uses

790
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:00,690
language that really seems to invoke

791
00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:02,973
slavery of the time.

792
00:42:04,397 --> 00:42:07,499
"Small cause have I,
the owner of my beauty,

793
00:42:07,499 --> 00:42:11,870
"to rejoice that cannot take
free passage in my choice,

794
00:42:11,870 --> 00:42:14,723
"but for the fruitless
painting of my cheeks,

795
00:42:14,723 --> 00:42:18,300
"must even become a
slave to what it likes,

796
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:21,610
"or be termed cruel."

797
00:42:21,610 --> 00:42:22,457
And then she says,

798
00:42:22,457 --> 00:42:25,727
"Is bondage the happiness
that attends on those

799
00:42:25,727 --> 00:42:27,447
"whom every 'fair' commends?

800
00:42:27,447 --> 00:42:30,167
"Then surely better much it is to be

801
00:42:30,167 --> 00:42:34,607
"rather than fair and
thralldom, brown and free."

802
00:42:38,203 --> 00:42:41,010
We know that at least some
of the Seymour family wealth,

803
00:42:41,010 --> 00:42:45,810
the wealth that she married
into, came from the slave trade.

804
00:42:45,810 --> 00:42:49,099
Her husband's uncle had actually
provided one of the ships

805
00:42:49,099 --> 00:42:51,340
that William Hawkins used

806
00:42:51,340 --> 00:42:54,050
in some of his slave trading voyages.

807
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:58,840
And Frances following a third marriage,

808
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,070
that raised her status even higher,

809
00:43:01,070 --> 00:43:04,536
she would go on to help
fund a voyage of John Smith

810
00:43:04,536 --> 00:43:06,498
into Virginia years later.

811
00:43:06,498 --> 00:43:09,693
So she's intricately
connected to what's happening

812
00:43:09,693 --> 00:43:11,283
during this time.

813
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,955
And then if beauty's mirror
reveals Rodney's error,

814
00:43:16,955 --> 00:43:21,955
it seems to be because Frances'
is reflection is white.

815
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:25,360
The implication here is that white women,

816
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,573
fair women are the ones
who should be free.

817
00:43:30,253 --> 00:43:35,180
Brown women are more
properly held in bondage

818
00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:37,500
or as slaves by English men.

819
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:41,010
It's whiteness that gives
her the freedom to choose

820
00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:43,690
who she's going to marry,

821
00:43:43,690 --> 00:43:45,743
even to paint her cheeks.

822
00:43:46,610 --> 00:43:50,960
And I think that this kind of attitude

823
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,960
is somewhat familiar

824
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,570
to feminist thinking today,

825
00:43:56,570 --> 00:44:00,331
about whose interests are being served

826
00:44:00,331 --> 00:44:03,210
when patriarchy is challenged?

827
00:44:03,210 --> 00:44:05,970
When we look at the Women's
March on Washington,

828
00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:08,393
when we look at the Me Too movement,

829
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:12,230
whose suffering is being privileged

830
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:15,640
and whose is being denied

831
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,073
or overlooked?

832
00:44:18,380 --> 00:44:22,089
Clearly Francies Hertford is not suffering

833
00:44:22,089 --> 00:44:24,470
(laughs) in bondage.

834
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:28,770
Clearly her fairness is
not making her a slave

835
00:44:28,770 --> 00:44:30,220
and it's sort of trivializing

836
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,422
the experiences that darker-skinned women

837
00:44:36,422 --> 00:44:39,240
would actually go through during the time.

838
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:44,090
So that is what I've brought
to share with you today.

839
00:44:44,090 --> 00:44:47,453
And I'm happy to answer questions as well.

840
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,060
- Thank you so much, Kim.

841
00:44:50,060 --> 00:44:52,210
This was really, really interesting.

842
00:44:52,210 --> 00:44:54,370
And I have to say as
a political scientist,

843
00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:57,709
where we're just so used
to looking at the data

844
00:44:57,709 --> 00:45:02,390
and the facts, this is just so
refreshing to see that power

845
00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:05,180
manifest itself

846
00:45:05,180 --> 00:45:08,030
in different ways and ways that
may be overlooked sometimes.

847
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:10,820
And I just want to add that
when I created this panel,

848
00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:12,870
originally, there was going
to be a third presenter.

849
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:16,070
She's on sabbatical, so
she could not join us,

850
00:45:16,070 --> 00:45:20,060
but her focus was on
robots and gender biases

851
00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:21,170
expressed through robots.

852
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:22,470
So it would have been also fascinating

853
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:24,180
to add this third dimension, but already,

854
00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:25,440
this is already so much,

855
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,800
so I'm glad, I'm glad we're
having this discussion.

856
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,870
So I don't know if there
are questions or comments

857
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:33,973
to Kim's presentation.

858
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:39,840
- I'd like to just add a
parallel question to the question

859
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,880
that I asked Keja.

860
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,900
And Kim, I think this is
before you rejoined us.

861
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:47,370
And that was sort of thinking about

862
00:45:48,330 --> 00:45:50,150
recording this for students,

863
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:53,895
who might eventually be thinking
of engaging in their own

864
00:45:53,895 --> 00:45:57,223
research and writing paths.

865
00:45:58,210 --> 00:46:00,710
If you could talk a little bit more about

866
00:46:02,620 --> 00:46:06,690
how you came to this particular book,

867
00:46:06,690 --> 00:46:10,340
of why it was a book and
why it took this form

868
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:13,563
and just a little bit about the journey.

869
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:16,143
- Oh, goodness.

870
00:46:19,219 --> 00:46:20,200
I mean, I think,

871
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,670
as I maybe acknowledged just a little bit,

872
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:27,710
even as a child, I was I was
a little bit curious about,

873
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:30,970
you know, why do we call
ourselves white people?

874
00:46:30,970 --> 00:46:32,643
And what's going on with that?

875
00:46:34,241 --> 00:46:36,750
And my parents are from Kentucky

876
00:46:36,750 --> 00:46:38,247
and my grandmother would say, like,

877
00:46:38,247 --> 00:46:40,710
"Don't play with the black
kids across the street."

878
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:42,080
And I was puzzled.

879
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,250
I was puzzled about what
was going on with that.

880
00:46:45,250 --> 00:46:47,600
So I had an interest

881
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,422
in what's what's going on
with race and whiteness

882
00:46:53,422 --> 00:46:55,540
from pretty early on.

883
00:46:55,540 --> 00:46:59,720
And then when I got into
graduate school and started

884
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,293
immersing myself in
Renaissance literature,

885
00:47:04,270 --> 00:47:08,560
I noticed references to painting
and cosmetics popping up

886
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,810
everywhere, which really surprised me.

887
00:47:11,810 --> 00:47:13,298
And then when I came back

888
00:47:13,298 --> 00:47:17,090
to some of the work that
I did in graduate school,

889
00:47:17,090 --> 00:47:21,793
trying to expand and launch
the dissertation into a book,

890
00:47:23,804 --> 00:47:27,840
it's impossible not to
think about racial issues

891
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,463
that are happening during our own time.

892
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,350
And some of the critiques
that have been made about

893
00:47:36,350 --> 00:47:37,183
white feminism,

894
00:47:37,183 --> 00:47:41,885
and what it was missing
really seemed to speak to me

895
00:47:43,254 --> 00:47:44,640
and led me to make connections,

896
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,720
between what seemed to be a gap

897
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:51,270
in what some of the feminist
critics and scholars

898
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:54,160
about race in the period were missing.

899
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,603
So that's sort of how the project evolved.

900
00:48:03,490 --> 00:48:05,300
- I have kind of a thought and question,

901
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:07,680
And I guess it's to
both Keja and Kimberly.

902
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:08,780
Again, going back to

903
00:48:11,469 --> 00:48:13,440
just the fact that this type of research

904
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,643
is novel and it's not necessarily,

905
00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:20,404
it's not the traditional
way in which people would

906
00:48:20,404 --> 00:48:23,380
study power and forms of domination.

907
00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:25,490
And yet, you know, there
is so much to be learned,

908
00:48:25,490 --> 00:48:26,863
but is it difficult?

909
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:28,613
So I know, Keja,

910
00:48:28,613 --> 00:48:30,600
you said you've collected a
lot of cookbooks over time,

911
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:31,740
but I'm sure not all of them

912
00:48:31,740 --> 00:48:34,023
turned out to have interesting content.

913
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:36,740
And there might be some that

914
00:48:36,740 --> 00:48:39,680
you might have heard of,
but it might be difficult

915
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,173
to obtain and same
thing for you, Kimberly.

916
00:48:43,259 --> 00:48:46,179
Basically the question is how do you get

917
00:48:46,179 --> 00:48:48,010
the evidence that you need?

918
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:50,550
Is it difficult to find
the evidence that you need

919
00:48:50,550 --> 00:48:53,320
to continue your research?

920
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,050
Because it is such an
unusual, in both cases,

921
00:48:56,050 --> 00:48:57,960
an unusual source,

922
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,323
and there's probably not
a repository somewhere,

923
00:49:00,323 --> 00:49:02,800
like an archive or a database, you know,

924
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,853
that you can go in and just
download what you need.

925
00:49:07,060 --> 00:49:07,970
- But somehow,

926
00:49:10,345 --> 00:49:11,512
but sometimes,

927
00:49:12,866 --> 00:49:15,560
you get lucky.

928
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,310
You know, Keja can probably
relate to this, too,

929
00:49:18,310 --> 00:49:21,030
exploring the archives and
coming across something that you

930
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:24,500
hadn't expected is exhilarating.

931
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,040
But over the past, you know,

932
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,003
five years or so,

933
00:49:29,290 --> 00:49:31,970
early English books online

934
00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:35,443
made their collections fully searchable.

935
00:49:36,350 --> 00:49:38,420
You can search, you know,

936
00:49:38,420 --> 00:49:41,640
within English books published from

937
00:49:42,569 --> 00:49:44,069
15th century up to

938
00:49:46,754 --> 00:49:47,880
18th century.

939
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,940
You can search for
phrases inside the books.

940
00:49:51,940 --> 00:49:54,640
Like you used to only be
able to search for titles

941
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,050
and you'd get things that
were in black letter.

942
00:49:57,050 --> 00:50:00,891
And it was really hard
to make out the font,

943
00:50:00,891 --> 00:50:03,850
and you'd strain your eyes.

944
00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:08,850
And with this development, oh,
it was such a game changer.

945
00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:13,960
So that really helped me

946
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,590
with my research and even Google books.

947
00:50:18,590 --> 00:50:21,453
I was able to access through Google books,

948
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:25,380
these Italian books of secrets

949
00:50:25,380 --> 00:50:27,320
and things that were written in French,

950
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,766
and it's amazing how
much things have changed.

951
00:50:31,766 --> 00:50:33,600
I don't know for you, Keja,

952
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,783
if you experienced anything similar.

953
00:50:37,310 --> 00:50:41,460
- There is much less digitization
of Caribbean materials.

954
00:50:41,460 --> 00:50:45,610
So I think it's a great question, Vanessa,

955
00:50:45,610 --> 00:50:49,250
because I think it's really
a question of archive.

956
00:50:49,250 --> 00:50:53,300
So I've run a lot into the
question of the problems of

957
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:57,890
archiving in the Caribbean
and the ways that,

958
00:50:57,890 --> 00:51:01,410
I have a hard enough
time finding these books,

959
00:51:01,410 --> 00:51:03,150
but I can find them much more easily

960
00:51:03,150 --> 00:51:05,090
than most people in the Caribbean.

961
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:06,980
And that's the other
thing that's crazy, right?

962
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:09,500
So where the archives are located,

963
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,750
are generally in the colonial centers

964
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:13,373
and in the United States.

965
00:51:15,690 --> 00:51:20,500
And because digitization is really low

966
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:22,888
of Caribbean cookbooks,

967
00:51:22,888 --> 00:51:25,450
people in the Caribbean
often can't even access

968
00:51:25,450 --> 00:51:27,033
digitized versions of them.

969
00:51:28,377 --> 00:51:31,110
So there's also sort of my awareness,

970
00:51:31,110 --> 00:51:34,170
that I actually have greater access here.

971
00:51:34,170 --> 00:51:36,536
And so part of my hope is to really,

972
00:51:36,536 --> 00:51:40,320
I'm including as much as many,
like all those cookbooks,

973
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,298
I've got sidebars of as
the many recipes as I can

974
00:51:43,298 --> 00:51:45,230
in the book, because
I'm at least trying to

975
00:51:45,230 --> 00:51:50,000
help make the recipes accessible again.

976
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,820
But the other thing is it's really random.

977
00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:55,130
So I have had a much
more random experience.

978
00:51:55,130 --> 00:51:57,500
So, you know, I look through and I think

979
00:51:57,500 --> 00:51:59,440
I found every possible cookbook,

980
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,700
but a lot of them are not,

981
00:52:00,700 --> 00:52:03,230
I look in WorldCat and a lot

982
00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:05,810
of them aren't cataloged in WorldCat.

983
00:52:05,810 --> 00:52:09,110
So then like I met this
woman who was a bookseller in

984
00:52:09,110 --> 00:52:12,350
Barbados and she has been
one of my greatest sources.

985
00:52:12,350 --> 00:52:15,007
Like she just sent me a
book. She was like, you know,

986
00:52:15,007 --> 00:52:17,427
"I found a book that's a photocopy of this

987
00:52:17,427 --> 00:52:20,547
"1937 Grenadian thing

988
00:52:20,547 --> 00:52:22,717
"that somebody bound at some point

989
00:52:22,717 --> 00:52:26,467
"and written by some guy who worked for

990
00:52:26,467 --> 00:52:28,837
"the Grenadian government in
the agricultural department.

991
00:52:28,837 --> 00:52:30,441
"Do you want it?"

992
00:52:30,441 --> 00:52:31,274
Yes. Yes.

993
00:52:31,274 --> 00:52:35,970
So it's a really an
under-collected archive

994
00:52:35,970 --> 00:52:39,610
and one that I don't think
I found a single book

995
00:52:39,610 --> 00:52:41,850
that I don't like find
totally fascinating,

996
00:52:41,850 --> 00:52:44,650
because even if they're weird.

997
00:52:44,650 --> 00:52:45,638
And even if it's just,

998
00:52:45,638 --> 00:52:48,730
these are a lot of the
cookbooks of the early ones are

999
00:52:48,730 --> 00:52:50,820
copies, but they're unacknowledged.

1000
00:52:50,820 --> 00:52:52,580
So I'll find a book and I'm like,

1001
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:55,250
I've read these recipes before. Right.

1002
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:58,630
And it's just that someone else redid them

1003
00:52:58,630 --> 00:53:02,297
and sometimes change the title a little

1004
00:53:02,297 --> 00:53:06,008
or it's anonymous or they
swap their name on it,

1005
00:53:06,008 --> 00:53:08,063
which still happens.

1006
00:53:09,230 --> 00:53:11,624
So the, like the web of,

1007
00:53:11,624 --> 00:53:14,090
but it's really part of the
web of ownership. Right.

1008
00:53:14,090 --> 00:53:17,565
And who owns things and who
holds things and who holds the

1009
00:53:17,565 --> 00:53:20,010
archives and who circulates them.

1010
00:53:20,010 --> 00:53:25,010
So tracing just the publication
and circulation histories

1011
00:53:25,580 --> 00:53:27,642
of cookbooks,

1012
00:53:27,642 --> 00:53:30,743
is itself really a fascinating
part of the project.

1013
00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:35,010
And I've got to figure out who to donate.

1014
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:37,661
Now I have a huge collection

1015
00:53:37,661 --> 00:53:39,361
that I need to donate to somebody.

1016
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:43,560
- Did you use the Schlesinger
collection at all?

1017
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,224
And would that be an
appropriate repository?

1018
00:53:47,224 --> 00:53:50,760
- Yes, but I don't want to
keep them in the United States.

1019
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,162
- Ah, okay.

1020
00:53:52,162 --> 00:53:55,120
- Yeah, the Schlesinger has one of the,

1021
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,920
they have the best collection
of American cookbooks, period.

1022
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,450
Then they have some gems

1023
00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:03,733
of Caribbean cookbooks.

1024
00:54:04,610 --> 00:54:07,900
And New York Public Library has a lot.

1025
00:54:07,900 --> 00:54:11,060
Boston Public Library has a
whole bunch of French colonial

1026
00:54:11,060 --> 00:54:13,828
cookbooks. I have no
idea how they got them,

1027
00:54:13,828 --> 00:54:17,780
but I also spent a lot of
time finding things that are

1028
00:54:17,780 --> 00:54:19,680
listed in Boston Public Library

1029
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,120
and then going to the library
and they're not there.

1030
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:24,860
And the librarian remembers

1031
00:54:24,860 --> 00:54:26,900
the guy who was librarian before him.

1032
00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:30,833
And yes, there's probably a
box somewhere. Like, yeah.

1033
00:54:38,595 --> 00:54:42,220
- Sorry. You had a question.

1034
00:54:42,220 --> 00:54:44,840
- Yes. I just wanted to
react to Kimberly's reading.

1035
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,790
I really enjoyed what you presented today.

1036
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:48,370
Thank you so much.

1037
00:54:48,370 --> 00:54:49,203
And you know,

1038
00:54:49,203 --> 00:54:52,010
to think about cosmetics
is having that much power

1039
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:52,920
and impact

1040
00:54:53,770 --> 00:54:57,220
on women's agency, actually,

1041
00:54:57,220 --> 00:55:00,320
because if you think about the
cosmetic empires that we have

1042
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,180
now and the businesses,
I'm sure you got into this.

1043
00:55:04,180 --> 00:55:05,430
It is fascinating. I mean,

1044
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:10,430
it's both a gilded cage and
also a platform for women.

1045
00:55:11,201 --> 00:55:12,300
So it's very interesting work. Yeah.

1046
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:14,290
- Yeah, exactly.

1047
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:16,040
You know, I think, you know,

1048
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,610
feminists among themselves
can't decide, you know,

1049
00:55:18,610 --> 00:55:21,834
is it an empowering
practice or is it a sign of

1050
00:55:21,834 --> 00:55:24,897
being subordinated to

1051
00:55:24,897 --> 00:55:26,763
these standards?

1052
00:55:28,204 --> 00:55:30,820
Yeah. It's both a neither

1053
00:55:31,758 --> 00:55:32,808
and it's complicated.

1054
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:35,830
- That's great. Makes for great reading.

1055
00:55:37,697 --> 00:55:38,530
- I hope so.

1056
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,550
- Kimberly, do you, at all, in your book,

1057
00:55:44,550 --> 00:55:48,850
do you also talk about
men's use of cosmetics?

1058
00:55:48,850 --> 00:55:51,530
Cause I know this was
also a practice, right?

1059
00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:54,740
We use a lot of powder, historically,

1060
00:55:54,740 --> 00:55:55,870
like around this same time.

1061
00:55:55,870 --> 00:55:59,988
I think I'm not really sure
about the exact time period,

1062
00:55:59,988 --> 00:56:02,810
but is that something you discuss as well?

1063
00:56:02,810 --> 00:56:05,720
- Not, not as much.

1064
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:09,570
Certainly they were associated
primarily with women

1065
00:56:09,570 --> 00:56:14,073
and men who were white,

1066
00:56:14,073 --> 00:56:18,680
were often, during this
particular time, were perceived

1067
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:19,823
as effeminate.

1068
00:56:23,069 --> 00:56:25,765
So there is a time that
it becomes a little bit

1069
00:56:25,765 --> 00:56:27,803
more accepted.

1070
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,420
And sometimes when women
are defending their

1071
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:32,267
use of cosmetics, they say,

1072
00:56:32,267 --> 00:56:33,737
"Well like you comb your hair

1073
00:56:33,737 --> 00:56:35,090
"and you do these other things",

1074
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:40,090
but they don't talk as much
about men using makeup yet.

1075
00:56:45,575 --> 00:56:47,090
- Okay, Keja, go ahead.

1076
00:56:47,090 --> 00:56:49,170
- Kim, I thank you so much,

1077
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:51,303
I love that the presentation.

1078
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:54,877
I was really curious
about the word "fair".

1079
00:56:55,930 --> 00:56:58,997
How does that become "beautiful"?

1080
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:00,853
- Yeah.

1081
00:57:03,010 --> 00:57:05,383
Yeah. (laughing)

1082
00:57:06,939 --> 00:57:10,360
So, I looked into this
that at some point too,

1083
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,590
and I found something that said English

1084
00:57:13,590 --> 00:57:18,000
is the only language
where fair and beautiful

1085
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,593
start to mean white as well.

1086
00:57:21,864 --> 00:57:23,930
Which was fascinating.

1087
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:26,360
I don't know every line.
I'm not sure if it's true,

1088
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,653
but it's something
interesting to think about.

1089
00:57:32,299 --> 00:57:33,132
Yeah.

1090
00:57:34,398 --> 00:57:36,760
I'm not sure exactly,

1091
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,110
where that association originates,

1092
00:57:41,110 --> 00:57:45,060
but it seems to become stronger

1093
00:57:46,466 --> 00:57:47,593
and stronger.

1094
00:57:50,890 --> 00:57:52,340
So Petrarch, of course,

1095
00:57:52,340 --> 00:57:55,140
in writing his poems and praising Laura,

1096
00:57:55,140 --> 00:57:56,963
like he describes her as fair.

1097
00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:00,080
And that's Italian.

1098
00:58:01,403 --> 00:58:04,230
But there's also in the
Italian Renaissance,

1099
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:06,970
sort of a shift in which the Virgin Mary

1100
00:58:06,970 --> 00:58:09,153
starts appearing as white.

1101
00:58:10,496 --> 00:58:15,496
So, during the Renaissance
and other European countries,

1102
00:58:15,850 --> 00:58:18,780
which were already exploring
other parts of the world

1103
00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:21,680
and coming into contact
with African people,

1104
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,029
there had already been a bit of a shift

1105
00:58:25,029 --> 00:58:28,547
towards idealizing white beauty.

1106
00:58:28,547 --> 00:58:31,530
And that I think seems to get

1107
00:58:31,530 --> 00:58:34,463
imported into England over time.

1108
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,800
- Of course there's Snow White.

1109
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,496
So if we want to talk about popular.

1110
00:58:44,496 --> 00:58:45,329
- Yeah.

1111
00:58:46,450 --> 00:58:50,500
- But my understanding was
that Elizabeth used the powder

1112
00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:53,020
to cover up the scars on her face from,

1113
00:58:53,020 --> 00:58:54,480
was it smallpox?

1114
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,090
- Yeah. So a lot of historians suggest

1115
00:58:58,090 --> 00:59:00,480
that she started using cosmetics

1116
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,890
after a bout with smallpox

1117
00:59:03,890 --> 00:59:08,091
and also to obscure the marks of aging,

1118
00:59:08,091 --> 00:59:11,953
as her reign went on.

1119
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,650
But there are also ways to use makeup,

1120
00:59:16,650 --> 00:59:19,520
that don't necessarily involve whitening.

1121
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:20,590
So I think

1122
00:59:22,331 --> 00:59:25,740
that's significant.

1123
00:59:25,740 --> 00:59:30,340
I think she very deliberately
made use of some the

1124
00:59:30,340 --> 00:59:32,780
positive associations with whiteness

1125
00:59:32,780 --> 00:59:35,340
to assert her own power.

1126
00:59:35,340 --> 00:59:37,550
And she also, in her speeches,

1127
00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:41,317
you can see her saying
to the English people,

1128
00:59:41,317 --> 00:59:44,820
"I'm purely English, I'm
born of two English parents."

1129
00:59:44,820 --> 00:59:47,113
You know, her sister married before her,

1130
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:49,910
married a Spaniard.

1131
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:53,030
Spaniards were supposed
to have mingled blood

1132
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:55,140
and her mother was Spanish.

1133
00:59:55,140 --> 00:59:56,357
So she really insisted,

1134
00:59:56,357 --> 01:00:00,147
"I'm pure and I'm English
and I'm not marrying,

1135
01:00:00,147 --> 01:00:04,150
"because I'm going to preserve
that English pure identity."

1136
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:09,150
And the whiteness in her case
seems to reinforce the point,

1137
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:16,820
- Well, thank you so much to both of you.

1138
01:00:16,820 --> 01:00:17,653
This was really,

1139
01:00:17,653 --> 01:00:21,020
really an interesting panel
and so excited that we could

1140
01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:21,993
make it happen.

1141
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:25,600
I want to thank everybody
for joining us and of course,

1142
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,180
Keja and Kimberly for accepting to share

1143
01:00:28,180 --> 01:00:29,260
their research with us.

1144
01:00:29,260 --> 01:00:31,750
I also want to let you
know that our next panel

1145
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:33,153
will be November 1st.

1146
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:36,540
So it's the next panel organized by

1147
01:00:36,540 --> 01:00:38,880
The Center for Research
and Creative Activities.

1148
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,060
And this one will be on

1149
01:00:41,060 --> 01:00:45,680
Critical Perspectives, Spaces,
Borders, and Territories.

1150
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,050
So it will be also advertised
through the same channels,

1151
01:00:49,050 --> 01:00:50,440
like the academy newsletter,

1152
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,270
like where you've seen
it in this one posted.

1153
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:56,270
And I hope you can join us
for that next one as well.

1154
01:00:56,270 --> 01:00:58,450
But again, thank you.

1155
01:00:58,450 --> 01:01:01,450
And I look forward to
seeing you all on Zoom

1156
01:01:01,450 --> 01:01:02,823
or in person on campus.

1157
01:01:03,808 --> 01:01:04,641
- Thank you, Vanessa.

1158
01:01:04,641 --> 01:01:06,872
- Bye-bye thanks so much.

1159
01:01:06,872 --> 01:01:07,904
- Bye.

1160
01:01:07,904 --> 01:01:08,833
- Thank you, Vanessa.

1161
01:01:08,833 --> 01:01:10,166
- [Vanessa] Bye.